The fact that she is so named shows that she had particular need for Susanna

The fresh genealogists all of the contemplate it significant one to Nicholas’ wife Clementia is actually provided right here while the, under normal things, she would never be said. When Susanna from the certain later go out got off to a unique protector, the new partner of that guardian was not stated.

This should mean that Queen John spent a little while here and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison that have Clementia can be found

Here are some here’s an idea state-of-the-art by specific eminent genealogists, but it is reasonable to state that the new findings is actually hotly contested!

This concept leads to a great and you may interested ‘twist’ on the facts from Joanna, which may interest admirers out-of HBD!

At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to strongly recommend one connection within hostage, Susanna away from Wales and Clementia, wife off Nicholas de- Verdun. Although not, sensation of certain genealogists that have foreign hostages, like youths, has been that they was basically tend to put with household members, if any were offered.

Jumping toward 1236, there was an admission throughout the Tewkesbury annals hence relates to Joanna’s mommy because “Queen Clemencie!” They reads in part:

Today, we know that mother from Joanna try named Clementia (Clemence?

In this instance brand new monk is actually plainly indulging inside gothic legalism. Prior to their particular demise, Joanna ended up being legitimised because of the Pope. On such basis as one legitimisation, this new Tewksbury monk obviously took they up on themselves to raise Joanna’s mom on the updates away from Queen, because if their own mommy had been King John’s spouse! It is a fact not, you to definitely Queen John and you may Clementia was never ever partnered. By writing on Joanna’s mother because “Queen” Clementia, the new monk which recorded Joanna’s passing try demonstrating his tall respect to own Joanna, yet not wanting to change the true affairs.

When it comes to name of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget signifies that she was the new child out-of Roger de- Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. One genealogist considers they significant that Clementia hailed off Wiltshire just like the he has got pointed out that Queen John got a powerful attachment to you to state, they as the home from their best partners, this new Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists are finding your label ‘Clementia’ was most unusual certainly one of English noblewomen for the period. In one dining table regarding ladies’ brands which was accumulated, there were just several situations of the term “Clementia” away from all in all, 1407 feamales in brand new shot! That anyone titled Clementia was of Susanna is tall.

Very! The data is actually effective, however conclusive, you to when you look at the 1228, Susanna, while the an effective hostage, gotten over to the new proper care of their particular maternal granny kissbrides.com visit site, now partner of Nicholas de- Verdun!!

New Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ hold one Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 when you look at the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will died c. 1259 from inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife during the 1230 and had two youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, produced 1245, died 1270 and you will MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

Obviously, you can find prevent arguments to all or any which supposition! King John got of numerous mistresses and possibly possibly eight illegitimate people. The caretaker off Joanna would have been created circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was created circa 1191 (fourteen years old during her relationships so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, brand new understood genuine child out-of Nicholas de- Verdun and his wife Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia is the mother from Joanna, she would have her late 30’s, very early 40’s when having a baby to help you Rohese! Not hopeless, particular say, but improbable.